Superman

[spudthedestroyer]

I'm just curious how some of the die hard comic fans feel about Superman in all his various interpretations, incarnations, and follies. I've always consider him to be a bit of a... well a dick, and well that's a more common thought than I expected:
http://superdickery.com/

I've rewatched the various films, both original and recuts (I probably prefer the Richard Donner Superman II, but the reuse of the first films plot device is rubbish and a real hideous mistake) and I have to say I don't mind them. Despite the crappy vision and story of returns, there's even some good points such as Kevin Spacey's Lex, and some of the imagery towards the end.

Smallville, Lois and Clarke and the early cartoon's kind of annoy me in that Superman loses some of his god like power. He seems to be crippled every couple of minutes and frankly this just ruins the character of Superman but on the plus side, plays up his alter-ego Clark Kent.

Anyway, I was reading that Christopher Nolan was working on a reboot for the franchise, which is interesting, but then I found out Zack Synder is directing:
http://www.slashfilm.com/2010/10/04/zac ... -superman/

Frankly, I think this is a mistake, and I'm not convinced that the story will be that good given its focus (reportedly) on other parts of Superman that personally I don't think the appeal lies in.

Just wondering, how does superman fit into the whole comic book world? Is he too powerful? Where does the interest lay? What is the balance between Clark Kent and Superman? Is Clark Kent just a skin or is superman the skin? He follows the opposite path to nearly all comic book characters in that Clark is the persona, where as Kal-El is the 'real' person. Do you have any hopes of this film being any good? Is the right person at the helm?

[Jynks]

Personally what i would do if i was a movie god and was able to pitch my perfect Superman film.. this would be it....

I would make it a trilogy, I wouldn't fuck around with the origin story again.. EVERYONE knows it for fucks sake... I would do a trilogy about Darksied.

1st ep would be the invasion of earth... full on planetary warfare.. earths armies against the small troops Darksied can get though the boomtubes...but they have the super alien tech. Also probably have the furies in it (the evil super chick squad Darksied uses) So Superman has people in his league to fight.

2nd ep would be a version of the "evil superman" comic arch, when Darksied mind controlled superman. So Superman going bad guy and forming that fascist world rule were he runs about in the black and red suit and lex luthor becomes the good guy. This imo would be a awesome story for Superman films as not a side people would expect and would be a fitting "dark" film for the 2nd

3rd I'd have the final showdown between superman and Darksied... and of course this film would be ON Apocalypse. So superman travels to the other planet to do w/e.. say stop a interplanetary fleet about to leave to conquer earth for good .. remember the anti-life Equastion would be in all three.. frickn awesome.. Also we are on Apocalypse, so when superman and darksied fight... they can fight.. I mean tear the planet apart fight!!

NOT that i have thought about a superman movie much... heheh I could go into much more detail...

Just wondering, how does superman fit into the whole comic book world? Is he too powerful? Where does the interest lay? What is the balance between Clark Kent and Superman? Is Clark Kent just a skin or is superman the skin? He follows the opposite path to nearly all comic book characters in that Clark is the persona, where as Kal-El is the 'real' person. Do you have any hopes of this film being any good? Is the right person at the helm?

Superman is to powerful in the context of the cartoons and films. In the comics he is powerful, there is no question... but he is matched with others who are near the same par. Like in the films there is no drama as he is like invincible.. not so in the comics. There are some hardcore DC badguys. The thing the cartoons and films do not portray is the galactic environment that DC universe is in. Earth us part of the green lanturn corps protectorate for example. I mean most comics in DC span across space, aliens, monsters, other dimensions... the setting of the guy protecting a single city is like form the golden age.. (there are ages in dc comics defined by the mass events)

Clark is almost forgotten in the comics nowdays. You still see him sometimes.. but it is not uncommon for the book to go a year or more with out him ever appearing. Superman has gone under a new modification recently that I find really good.. much more like wonder woman has been for ages, as they are shedding that Christopher Reeves boyscout thing. I mean he is still like Batman and a pussy that will not kill anyone.. so not quite the viscous bee-atch that wonder woman is, though like wonder woman the writers are really getting into the concept that superman is a FUCKING GOD and is scary as fuck. He is often drawn now wrapped in flames from what ever he just destroyed and glowing red eyes.

What makes Superman comics awesome is that they are extremely epic. Wonder Woman is the same in this way.... as in their comics are about events that can destroy the universe... as in the DC universe... In fact the FINAL CRISIS of DC just happened and it happen though superman's books (a crisis is a event in comics that span all books, so the story is so big it is told in every comic in the universe) If you are looking for comics about full on ass kicking god like beings from the heart of the universe.. then superman is your guy. While most other stories are smaller, superman is always epic.


As for the film... I have high hopes... for me even a shit superman film is better than none. I do not think there will ever be a real superman film for a long long long time. Most of the directors and people writing the scripts no jack shit about superman.. and I expect this to show in the fact that it will be a guy in a suit fighting bank robbers with machine guns... NOT punching things so hard that reality itself cracks. Still, i'll be at the cinema...

[spudthedestroyer]

Yeah, I'm not a big comic books guy and I figured that they've expanded, and expanded and then what is superman to most people is just a facet of what it is now; which brings up the arguments about jumping the shark etc.

With the character I'd agree, we don't need origins, EVERYBODY knows superman and where he came from so I'd agree, it should start with it assumed and go big. He's big, bad and all powerful. Then there's something bigger, badder and even more powerful. The humans can just be cannon fodder

btw... Epic you say?
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclu ... rse/702050

[Jynks]

yea, that game trailer went around a while back and features the post final crisis version of superman (the current bad ass GODlike version). Though it is exactly as you say... it has expended so much the original films are just a facet, with small relation to what it is like nowdays.

[spudthedestroyer]

There a reading list / graphic novel compilation for the crisis stuff jynks? Might by em from amazon.

btw, found this looking for pictures and it made me chuckle:

[Jynks]

something as big as a dc crisis is hard to get, and then if you do you also need to work out a reading order. I'd sugest using digital rips, though there are probably collected volumes out now as well.

April

* DC Universe #0

May

* Justice League of America #21
* Final Crisis #1 (of 7)
* Final Crisis: Sketchbook

June

* Final Crisis #2 (of 7)

July

* Final Crisis #3 (of 7)
* Final Crisis: Requiem (One-Shot)
* Final Crisis: Rogue's Revenge #1 (of 3)

August

* Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds #1 (of 5)
* Final Crisis: Revelations #1 (of 5)
* Final Crisis: Rogue's Revenge #2 (of 3)
* Final Crisis: Superman Beyond (One-Shot)

September

* Final Crisis #4 (of 7)
* Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds #2 (of 5)
* Final Crisis: Revelations #2 (of 5)
* Final Crisis: Rogue's Revenge #3 (of 3)
* Final Crisis: Submit (One-Shot)

October

* Final Crisis #5 (of 7)
* Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds #3 (of 5)
* Final Crisis: Resist (One-Shot)
* Final Crisis: Revelations #3 (of 5)

November

* Final Crisis #6 (of 7)
* Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds #4 (of 5)
* Final Crisis: Rage of the Red Lanterns (One-Shot)
* Final Crisis: Revelations #4 (of 5)

December

* Final Crisis #7 (of 7)
* Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds #5 (of 5)
* Final Crisis: Revelations #5 (of 5)

This is the final crisis list I used... but there is a lot missing of the sub hero archs also this doesn't cover pre or post crisis or aftermath....

Wikipedia also has a reading list for the core of final crisis.. might be a good place to start...

* Batman #682-683,[29] #701-702
* "DC Universe" #0
* "DC Universe: Last Will and Testament"[27]
* Final Crisis: Legion of 3 Worlds #1-5[12]
* "Final Crisis: Rage of the Red Lanterns" (one-shot)[11][30]
* "Final Crisis: Requiem" (one-shot)[9]
* "Final Crisis: Resist" (one-shot)[10]
* Final Crisis: Revelations #1-5[13]
* Final Crisis: Rogues' Revenge #1-3[14]
* "Final Crisis: Secret Files" (one-shot)
* "Final Crisis: Sketchbook" (one-shot)
* "Final Crisis: Submit" (one-shot)
* "Final Crisis: Superman Beyond" #1-2
* "Justice League of America" (vol. 2) #21
* "Superman Batman" #76