HD, sources and criticism

[TeKHeD]

I am not being funny or anything but is there really a need for a HD rip of this size when the dvd iso is available which is the same size?i for one would rather bag the dvd??

Spud: This is split from a release thread for a HDTV rip, one that is sourced from an American HDTV channel that airs 1080i movies. The rip had some misleading screenshots that were taken in something like powerdvd that weren't cropped and highly compressed.

[Augmenter]

This is just for testing your brand new plasma, if you have one.

[TeKHeD]

what was the source, as far as i am aware the only source of HD is either blue ray or HD TV?

[Augmenter]

Don't know, but the picture looks realy nice.

[spudthedestroyer]

Before replying for HDTV vs DVD, its worth noting, ignore those screenshots, a) they are highly compressed jpgs b) they aren't even the right size (ie. the rip won't have the boarders present and its been resizing, probably snaps from a lossy program like PowerDVD)

Anyway...

I am not being funny or anything but is there really a need for a HD rip of this size when the dvd iso is available which is the same size?i for one would rather bag the dvd??

no, DVD is inferior to HDTV, its standard definition vs high definition, 480i vs 1080i.

Unless its watermarked or corrupted, a HDTV rip will be a lot better quality to a DVD, especially given at 4.3GB the DVDr will probably be re-encoded anyway in this particular case.

So yes there's a need, and you are being funny/not quite getting the difference

If you still can't comprehend the difference after that explaination, why not see the difference of other hdtv movies?

Either click here since this is a much more representative screenshot of a hdtv movie.

More here:

T3:
viewtopic.php?t=1154

Matrix 2:
viewtopic.php?t=1084

RE2:
http://forum.dead-donkey.com/viewtopic.php?t=10285

You should also note this is mpeg4 vs an older mpeg2 (DVD standard is mpeg2 only, and a set resolution of 720x576). So DVD is just inferior.

[TeKHeD]

hmm i understand but i would be interested to know the source as commercially available hd films are not available as such yet so if its genuinely hd where did it come from (the reason i ask is i have a 50" HD plasma tv and would love to know where to rip hd movies from and not rely totally on downloads and sky hd), the only source so far i am aware of is sky or telewest hd but all are watermarked .

[El Mariachi]

This release doesn't look so HD to me at all.

I've seen it better

[spudthedestroyer]

This release doesn't look so HD to me at all.

I've seen it better

I'll pretend you've read the entire thread, downloaded the movie and are commenting about that, because otherwise you'll have obviously done exactly what i made a comment about doing a few posts back.

Before replying for HDTV vs DVD, its worth noting, ignore those screenshots, a) they are highly compressed jpgs b) they aren't even the right size (ie. the rip won't have the boarders present and its been resizing, probably snaps from a lossy program like PowerDVD)

[Gem]n[]

Sorry I'm with TekHed on this ...

Disregarding the quality ... that's not the issue ... I know it's superior & all that to DVD ... but until ALL movies are converted to HD then I personally don't see the point of HDTV if I have to go back to watch a none HD movie using a 'Crappy DVD' ...

HD media sources are far & few between at the mo ... I will convert believe me but only when it's become far more common ... DVD took ages to kick off ... now look at it ... I wait and watch ...

Just my penny's worth ...

[spudthedestroyer]

Disregarding the quality ... that's not the issue ...

WTF? Yes it is, its because of its quality that your complaining. The sole purpose of HDTV is better quality. You need better hardware to play it back. You can't fault a source because your too cheap ass (or got better priorities which is more likely, but i'll continue to stress cheap ass since it indicates the real problem here ) to buy the hardware that's required. That's what your doing, and that's not really very fair or credible for a criticism of hdtv. If your watching hdtv on sdtv, well duh!

That's your wank setup, and your problem though. The source is better, much better. Just because you have the inability to play it back, that's completely a failing on yourside. That isn't a failing with the source which is superior.

And the statement for a lack of hd is deeply misguided, or at least not based in reality. TV episodes are all pretty much hdtv, not the downsampled ones, the HR HDTV sourced rips (that's the 700mb+ rips). If you go looking, there's loads of HDTV content, try alt.binaries.hdtv for example, or .repost for more. There's no disks in the shops much, but there's hundreds of channels and a hdtv rip done right does look better than DVD without question. Your obviously not looking because of your wank setup. Which is fair enough, but you can't claim there isn't a huge improvement, you can't claim that there's no movies in hdtv when your not even watching them in hdtv or looking for rips, and you can't claim anything else when what it boils down to is that you've got a crap setup and you can't be arsed with it until its more widespread. Or you've got to convert because your setup sucks

I'm sure that's an annoyance, but that always boils down to it being your problem.

The predominant word was i in your post, i understand that, but your trying to make a point that doesn't work. Just because your setup sucks balls doesn't mean that HDTV isn't vastly superior, which it is. I've got no idea about this rip beyond the fact that i hate the movie, and those screenshots aren't representative, but i aint crazy enough to claim hdtv is crap because my setup sucks or my Xbox can't play it.

I just don't see how people can winge about superiority just because they aren't a part of the movement, its not really very relevant. That's just you/us not being able to utilise it, not a fault with HDTV.




This is exactly like people bitching at ARF because they don't have a DVDr burner, or advanced matrixes because their lousy standalone doesn't support them. Where's my violin? Tough titty folks... its not the source materials problem, all you can say is why your not getting it, and that really doesn't matter to anyone else.

[Gem]n[]

I knew he'd bite ...

Think we (alright I) got confused somewhere:

NO I'm not complaining about the quality - never did
YES HDTV is superior quality - never said it wasn't
YES It is down to your AV hardware at home
YES I can't be bothered to spend money on something that dosen't give me a hard on YET
NO I'm not a cheap arse (see above)
YES It is MY problem - I wasn't saying it was anybody else's

AND I don't call grabbing TVRips from OTHER peoples setup a proper SOURCE for HD ... I was on about getting it off the shelf ...

I'm here to help out the majority not just the leet few ... I won't get anal about things ... I have a right to express my views ... I wasn't preaching about it (or didn't mean to) ... it was solely MY own opinion ... sorry if you took it personally ...

Thing is ... I think we're about the same age and we are thinking the same but with different views ... ... we've been there ... done it ... got the lot (apart from HD ) and we know the score ... our extensive knowledge sometimes get's in the way and too frustrating ...

P.S: I retract everything I have said about HD ... till I know more ... then I'll be back to kick arse & chew bubble gum ... also I'm crap at explaining 'views'

Maybe it's time we had a HD Section ... see? ... I'm converting

[spudthedestroyer]

I don't think there's enough exclusively scifi emule releases to justify a section of its own, certainly when it fits the definition of higher quality. I dunno if enough people want a section i'll make one.

I can't play back hd content properally yet either, and by properally i mean anything other than my pc (My monitor has a good enough native res though, but i'm not getting the full force). But even though my setup is too cheap ass, I can't say "I don't see the point of a large filesize" which is what tek said, since i can see a huge difference even on my setup.


As for the commercially available, there's hundreds of channels across the globe that purely do hdtv. England is a shit hole, that's why we don't have hdtv yet. Our satellite channels are low definition, blocky shit too. I mean sky's quality is really crap. Rest of the world are okay though by and large, they have much higher standards.

There are HD-DVD movies on the market (Bluray is not even out yet), but the encryption isn't cracked yet so we can't get rips from then. Until then there's a plethora of HDTV tv rips. These are from very expensive capture cards, and mostly produce results that are far better than DVDs. There is a risk of a) a logo for brief periods of time b) possibility of corrupted frames. b) are less of a problem today, logo still are an annoyance, apart from when that occurs the source is clearly better.

I've got loads of films in HDTV, some are upsampled DVDs, but even then in many cases they quality is far, far better than my retail DVD I have on my self and can do direct comparisons with. Its because the bitrate is much higher as well as the resolution.

[spudthedestroyer]

I split this since its not really about the release anymore.

Okay, i might as well post some notes about the different types of HDTV rips we see and will see.

At the moment, we see:
1) Downsampled HDTV rips of tv series, usually logo'd and compressed heavily. These are usually worse than a DVDrip.
2) High/Full res HR HDTV rips of tv series, usually logo'd, but are far better than a DVDrip and indeed a DVD source. I had a couple of episodes of carnivale that looked better than my DVD box set. Unfortunately it was just a couple of episodes
3) Downsampled to DVD resolution HDTV rips, that's 720x but with high bitrate. These are actually usually better than a DVDrip, at 1cd more or so. TLF do these for example
4) 720i/p, large filesize. Better than DVDrip at the same bitrate.
5) 1080i, 1/2 DVDr filesize. WAY better than a DVDrip at the same bitrate/filesize. Resolution gain and space to prevent the need for downsampling means these look awesome.

4 and 5 are what usually cause the problems on people's current setups.

The reason, DVD is hindered by the source. When you have high bitrates, you can't go over 720 since your zooming a source which makes it worse quality. HDTV is broadcast at a higher resolution, at a higher bitrate which means the source is better and even if you reduce a better source down to the same size as a dvdrip, it looks better. Barely anywhere seems to have 1080p, i think the bandwidth might be a tad high for broadcast or something.

I understand the "well there's not enough so why download", because its available and its better would be the simplest response (or the post two posts up if your a wordy nonce like me ).

As for sources of HD:
a) HDTV TV stations (hundreds of them, some logo, some don't)
b) HD-DVD retail DVDs *uncracked thus far

Even then, you still get better quality out of hdtv tv broadcasts then dvd when captured correctly than a retail dvd. The issue is whether its watermarked at all and whether there;s a dropped frame.

Upcoming sources for HD:
c) bluray
d) possible Holographic storage media (they've been going on about that for like 10 years now )

The capture process on 1080i is usually very high quality.

Emule has a suprising amount of HDTV content on it, and it downloads surprisingly fast. I've downloaded RE, RE2 (yeah i know, i was just curious ), and From Dusk Till Dawn as HDTV. In terms of HR HDTV tv rips, i've gotten lost, carnivale and a host of others. And from news, i've gotten Dark City (only 720i ), Monster Squad, ghost busters, kung fu hustle, Star Wars episode 3, Army of Darkness... etc.

I think that's a summary, I guess to get back to the original suggestion, kind of "what's the point of hdtv when you can get a dvdr at the same bitrate?" because it looks waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.


Of course, SD tv takes the bite out of it. But even then, i'd argue the case for superiority given the higher bitrate and resolution (even if its downsampled). Its an annoyance that you've got to spend a lot of money making it worthwhile though

There's gain from updating, i can't really play hdtv at the potential i really need to benefit, but I certainly see the point of it. Its better, and its all about quality. It always is.




Edit: erm... sorry to make a topic/issue out of it, I was just picking up on the "what's the point when you can get DVDr?" and thought it was more about HDTV than about that crappy movie, "The Island" which isn't worth 700mb, let alone a DVDr or HDTV. It was the second topic on this, someone raised the point iirc so i thought i'd make the case for it.

[Gem]n[]

Now that brother made it So Much better to understand ... I can see why you are defensive about HD ... ...

That's a very good description for ppl (like me) who likes to know more ...

You should make a sticky out of that headed 'HD - The Ins & Outs' ... or something like that ...