Time Travel - Not As Impossible As It Might Seem

[maxpayne2409]

time travel - myth or reality, one man will find out as we visit the twilight zone DODODODODOD


was alerted to this by a friend

For the full 5 page article click HERE

The mystery of time travel
Published: July 3, 2005, 6:00 AM PDT
By Dennis Overbye
The New York Times

There was a conference for time travelers at MIT earlier this spring.

I'm still hoping to attend, and although the odds are slim, they are apparently not zero despite the efforts and hopes of deterministically minded physicists who would like to eliminate the possibility of your creating a paradox by going back in time and killing your grandfather.

"No law of physics that we know of prohibits time travel," said J. Richard Gott, a Princeton University astrophysicist.

Gott, author of the 2001 book "Time Travel in Einstein's Universe: The Physical Possibilities of Travel Through Time," is one of a small breed of physicists who spend part of their time (and their research grants) thinking about wormholes in space, warp drives and other cosmic constructions, that "absurdly advanced civilizations" might use to travel through time.

It's not that physicists expect to be able to go back and attend Woodstock, drop by the Bern patent office to take Einstein to lunch, see the dinosaurs or investigate John F. Kennedy's assassination.

In fact, they're pretty sure those are absurd dreams and are all bemused by the fact that they can't say why. They hope such extreme theorizing could reveal new features, gaps or perhaps paradoxes or contradictions in the foundations of physics as we know it and point the way to new ideas.

"Traversable wormholes are primarily useful as a 'gedanken experiment' to explore the limitations of general relativity," said Francisco Lobo of the University of Lisbon.

[Jim123]

To me this topic is very dificult, I am no physicist so I can't add anything but according to Einstein's theory you will travel to the past from the point of view of the people in the time that you come back, but the future from the travellers point at the time that he comes back. If I have it wrong I hope someone can correct me.

[spudthedestroyer]

Jim123, a lot of what Einstein said was so over my head it boggles the mind, however I belive thats what he theorised.

They actually did tests on the matter by concording an atomic clock and then sending another by ship, given that its all down to speed and mass according to Einstein. There was a slight difference in time, and the time by concorde was factionally behind that of the supposedly syncronised clock sent by the slower method.

That's what you said so it sounds like you got it understood

[dinky]

sure, I love chicken.

[Jim123]

They actually did tests on the matter by concording an atomic clock and then sending another by ship, given that its all down to speed and mass according to Einstein. There was a slight difference in time, and the time by concorde was factionally behind that of the supposedly syncronised clock sent by the slower method.

I heard about that test but not from a good source. I am glad you brought that up. I guess then it must be true. Does anyone have a link or name of a reference book that I can follow up discussing the experiment?

[maxpayne2409]

I heard about that test but not from a good source. I am glad you brought that up. I guess then it must be true

no disrespect to spud but it really made me laugh that jim123 takes it as gospel just because spud said it

[barry]

I think you'll find that Einstein's theories of relativity specifically preclude the possibility of time travel due to causality violation. What's Spud was referring to was testing of time dilation versus proper time, not the kind of time travel that crops up in movies.

[Jim123]

no disrespect to spud but it really made me laugh that jim123 takes it as gospel just because spud said it

Why so negative maxpayne2409, don't worry I am running down the street quoting Spud or anyone else for that matter.

I am just making an observation that more than one person has mentioned this test to me. Further I did ask for references for more study. What is wrong with taking Spuds word for it? I don't see Spud jumping to conclusions or misinterpreting what someone says as you have done.

Thanks barry, years ago I watched Carl Sagan do a TV documentary on this topic. It was very simplified though for TV. In a few words, he stated that if you traveled faster than the speed of light for some time, when you returned nobody you knew would still be alive.

[maxpayne2409]

Why so negative maxpayne2409, don't worry I am running down the street quoting Spud or anyone else for that matter.

I am just making an observation that more than one person has mentioned this test to me. Further I did ask for references for more study. What is wrong with taking Spuds word for it? I don't see Spud jumping to conclusions or misinterpreting what someone says as you have done.

erm stf i wasnt being negative or misinterpreting things, it would be a shame if people actually had a sense of humour these days wouldnt it

i wasnt saying you hadnt heard it anywhere else, it was just the way you worded it that i found it rather amusing and i have nothing against you taking spuds word for it or for spud giving his word or infact for anyone else to say something

thats the problem with the internet, so many people without a sense of humour

[spudthedestroyer]

lol

not the kind of time travel that crops up in movies.

Oh of course, I wouldn't really make a comment on that kind of time travel since I haven't really seen anything credible in its favour. The concept of being able to go back in time in this way will probably be just a work of science fiction
No, didn't want to even imply that kind of time travel is/isn't possible, since i don't think that's likely to ever happen, not whilst we're on Terrafirma anyway

[barry]

]

Oh of course, I wouldn't really make a comment on that kind of time travel since I haven't really seen anything credible in its favour. The concept of being able to go back in time in this way will probably be just a work of science fiction
No, didn't want to even imply that kind of time travel is/isn't possible, since i don't think that's likely to ever happen, not whilst we're on Terrafirma anyway

Whereas I do explicitly state that that kind of time travel will never be possible. Barring the discovery of entirely new fields of physics, it'll only ever have a place in science fiction.

[spudthedestroyer]

Sounds to me that you've already got a time machine

Barring the discovery of entirely new fields of physics

Indeed, but the fact that we do have those collosal discoveries at least once a century, and its not just small pickings either, its a total paradigm shift, I don't think you can make that claim given our total ignorance of the field. We think we know a bit about physics, but if you think about the scale of the field, we are pretty much pond sludge atm Pond sludge with atomic bombs though

[Jim123]

no disrespect to spud but it really made me laugh that jim123 takes it as gospel just because spud said it

How else would anyone take a remark like that?

1. "disrespect to spud" but what disrespect to me.

2. "gospel" your words not mine.

3. "because spud said it" do you really think so?

4. " no sense of humor" not when I am insulted.

about the scale of the field, we are pretty much pond sludge atm Pond sludge with atomic bombs though

I agree 100 % with you spudthedestroyer (now watch maxpayne2409 jump all over this one). Everyone is jumping to theories in hopes that in the future they are correct and can get their names in the history books.

Many people misunderstand Aristotle. He was wrong in some of his findings but if you ever get a chance to read why he disagreed with others or his logic you will get a different interpretation of this man. A large misconception is that Aristotle did not do any experiments, which is totally false. In fact it is the opposite, one occasion it was discussed whether a vacuum could exist, some said yes and I believe he said no because nobody could prove it to him.

The reason I am bringing up the topic of Aristotle is to make a comparison between the greatest mind of that time and the tools available and one of the greatest minds of our time Einstein and 2000 some years of discoveries after Aristotle. We accept what Einstein or anyone else said, but unless we can verify what they said it is just a theory.

[barry]

We accept what Einstein or anyone else said, but unless we can verify what they said it is just a theory.

For anything to be considered a scientific theory, it must be falsifiable. Hence even coherent, consistent and detailed material such as string theory, m-theory or branes, aren't considered scientific theories as there's no way to prove or disprove, whereas special relativity did posess the capacity to be tested, even if the needed experiments could only be performed years afterwards. And since this is wandering away from the original topic of time travel I'll use this as an oppurtunity to point out that all experiments since publication in 1905 have only reinforced special relativity and ruled out any possibility of time travel.

[dinky]

you know...it's not as long a debate yet, but this is definitely</i> geekier than the air pressure on cloud city.


and max, I think you have a wonderful sense of humor. it's the only explanation for your taste in movies.


I keed I keed

and I think you're all blasphemers for arguing the LOGIC of time travel in Back to the Future</i>.

Flux capacitor + Mr. Fusion + 88mph = time travel. period.

(now someone watch some movies/shows so I can go back to the last movie thread)

[maxpayne2409]

Quote:
no disrespect to spud but it really made me laugh that jim123 takes it as gospel just because spud said it


How else would anyone take a remark like that?

1. "disrespect to spud" but what disrespect to me.

2. "gospel" your words not mine.

3. "because spud said it" do you really think so?

4. " no sense of humor" not when I am insulted.

im gonna guess your american, otherwise i cant see any reason you wouldve taken the humour the wrong way, as americans seem incapable of getting jokes unless its spelt out to them (no offence dinky or other sfhah regulars from america who have more sense of humour then an average moth)

"1. "disrespect to spud" but what disrespect to me." wow someone has a real chip on their shoulder to take it that way, it was actually meant in the way i put it because i wasnt trying to insinuate that spuds knowledge shouldn't be believed as he does know a lot about this kinda stuff and its mostly quite accurate (regardless of whether me and him disagree on other things or not )

"4. " no sense of humor" not when I am insulted" as i never actively insulted you then yes you have no sense of humour, if i was trying to insult you i wouldv'e done so in a way that could only be taken one way

well you have successfully took a little joke and blown it so out of proportion that you could use it to dress a blue whale on its wedding day complete with full length train and veil, so congratulations on for your benefit alone as i suspect everyone else actually got it here is an actual example of the meaning

jim: im not sure if the earth is round
spud: yes jim it is
jim: oh well i guess it must be then

how anyone couldve blatanty not got that i dont know, unless of course you also go by the name of Mr Magoo away from this forum

and max, I think you have a wonderful sense of humor. it's the only explanation for your taste in movies

finally someone gets me , u can always count on the dinkster to lighten the mood, yes i may like bad b-movies dinky but i do laugh and add my own mst3k style commentary to it

(now someone watch some movies/shows so I can go back to the last movie thread)

consider it done

[spudthedestroyer]

you know...it's not as long a debate yet, but this is definitely geekier than the air pressure on cloud city.

Dude, that wasn't geeky it was a discussion that had to take place, the lab boys got back to me on that one and there is definitely a pressure difference in the lower levels of Bespin city, that has a higher pressure than the outside area and the upper levels...

Many Bothan Spies died to bring you this information....

[Jim123]

as americans seem incapable of getting jokes unless its spelt out to them

I had written a lengthy comeback to you. But after consideration I deleted it because I think that you just don't get it and you never will.

No, I am not American and I would never insult a nation the way you just did either. That is the thanks they get for getting the English involved in Iraq. You should apologize, kiss the US flag and drink some Miller beer for saying that.


Your right Spud I meant to say Hypothesis .

[dinky]

you know...it's not as long a debate yet, but this is definitely geekier than the air pressure on cloud city.

Dude, that wasn't geeky it was a discussion that had to take place, the lab boys got back to me on that one and there is definitely a pressure difference in the lower levels of Bespin city, that has a higher pressure than the outside area and the upper levels...

Many Bothan Spies died to bring you this information....

nice touch. those poor bothans. a species on the edge of extermination by now.

[maxpayne2409]

havent those bothan spies been on the edge of extinct for nigh on 3 or 4 years now? every time spud posted with it in his sig more and more died, poor bothan spies

No, I am not American and I would never insult a nation the way you just did either. That is the thanks they get for getting the English involved in Iraq. You should apologize, kiss the US flag and drink some Miller beer for saying that

erm and getting england involved in a war that never concerned them in the first place is a good thing how?, i would rather apologise to the spanish for that small misunderstanding in 1588 then apologise to the americans for involving us in a war that had about as much to do with us as the common cold has to do with a rock, and why on earth would i want to drink watered down american piss aka american beer

as far as im concerned i've met bread with more intelligence, your miller beer comment only helps to cement this