A "definitive" Brazil Director's Cut release?

[kress]

Hey people, I was just wondering which release has the "definitive" final-cut of the film.

This one:

viewtopic.php?t=605

or this one:

http://ed2k.earthreactor.com/Wcf3759153fe08.htm

Obviously the Android release is better since it's encoded in AC3, but the reason I'm asking this is because of the runtime difference. If you'll notice the Android rip clocks at 2:16:50 and the 2nd release (Criterion) clocks at 2:22:46 (as it should be since the final-cut is exactly 142 minutes).

I fear the Android release is either not really the "final-cut" or the credits might be cut-off. Regardless, has anyone downloaded either of these releases and noticed a difference in the film itself? Because I'm still wondering about those 6 minutes that were "left out" of the Android release.

I would appreciate any help you can give me...
Thanks in advance
kress

[spudthedestroyer]

They have identical runtimes, sounds odd but skip to PAL and NTSC if you don't want to read this entire post.

There's 3 cuts:
1) European cut (pretty much the same as the yanky uncut one, neither are censored)
2) US "Love Conquers-all effort"
3) US: Director's Cut

The changes however were minimal between the us: director's cut and european, i think it was one change to the end credit. The us version fades to black and the european fades to clouds (or is it the other way round?). I think in the end, the US director's cut replaced the european one for dvd releases, since it really was just the end credit minimally changed.

The reason the us cut version was so radically different was that Gilliam was ordered at near gunpoint to cut it down. They flat out wanted to see a 90min version, with no compromise. There is a genuine conception that american audiences are week stomached and incapable of intellectual, dark or disturbing movies by media bosses. Sickening, but true I'm afraid.

What happened is Terry finished his print and then Paramount was having none of it. They sat on the movie and refused to release it until Gilliam recut it, which he did many many times, but you just can't cut a film so well made a Brazil significantly.

The US: director's cut, was his european print.

So what ended up happening is there came the Love Conquer's all version, which was totally buthered and thankfully shamed and removed.

Now your question doesn't take into account framerate. PAL movies are infact shorter than NTSC versions, in terms of running time, but identical frame for frame. The reason is pal footage runs at 25fps and NTSC at 23.3976fps (NTSCs only superior 'claim' is that its slightly closer to the cinema framerate of 24fps, it is an inferior format in every other single way).

Now what you get is the number of frames is the same, but the PAL version is running at nearly 2frames faster, now this doesn't sound like much, but you then have 2 * 60 is the number of frames per minute, and this number * 60 is the number of frames an hour, and given that its a very, very long movie, that tallies up to the PAL playing a hell of a lot more frames before the NTSC has finished.

So in answering your question, PAL material plays faster than the NTSC counterpart, and even though they are identical in terms of content, they may not match in terms of runtime.

If your wishing to choose, andriod's is the best because it will have superior sound and video quality. The content is the same.

Obviously the Android release is better since it's encoded in AC3

AC3 doesn't make it better, remember more bits spent on audio, means bits less spent on video What makes it better is it's xvid as opposed to the depreciated divx 4, and the specs are a lot more healthy.

You can tell ones ntsc and ones pal (:. yanky and european)

[kress]

There is a genuine conception that american audiences are week stomached and incapable of intellectual, dark or disturbing movies by media bosses. Sickening, but true I'm afraid.

Yeah, tell me about it. Unfortunately, some of us americans like to watch high-quality, thought-provoking films and the film industry in the US has a tendency to "cut-short" films in order to sometimes meet audience "standards" and thus you cannot see them as the directors intended them to be. Luckily, "cutting short" is not done as much as it used to be (especially in the 80's), but it's still used from time to time.

And yes, I was aware of the butchering of Brazil and what Terry Gilliam had to go through to get his version of the film out. I actually had the 3-Disc Criterion release of this, but unfortunately I lost it about 2 years ago and been wanting to get it ever since and to my despair Criterion doesn't wish to revisit and re-release it again in anamorphic format.

Thanks a lot for all the PAL/NTSC comparison. I was aware that the frame speed is different, but I never thought it would have an effect of 6 minutes...

Anyway, thanks a bunch for the lengthy explanation... You brits are helpful lads...